What happens when your frontline workforce spans 20,000 locations—and your clients control the environment?
Raúl Valentín, EVP & CHRO of ABM Industries – one of the world’s largest providers of facility, engineering, and infrastructure solutions – explains how he keeps people-first leadership at the heart of a massive, distributed workforce.
From leading HR with business fluency to fighting for tech that actually works on the frontlines, Raúl shares the mindset shifts every HR pro needs to make if they want a seat at the leadership table.
Raúl also shares:
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[00:00:00] Raúl Valentín: I was surprised how many people would say, I am pushing these messages out to managers. They're not being responsive, and I'd go. Well, do you know what their jobs are? And often I got the answer was no, because they'd never been out there. And then once they went out, they came back and said, oh. So seeing it through those eyes all of a sudden changes everything you're thinking about, how do I connect with them? How do I communicate to them? How do I support them?
[00:00:20] Dave Travers: So what does it really take for your business to attract world-class talent today? I'm Dave Travers, president of ZipRecruiter, and on Talent All Stars, we shine a light on the people and the day-to-day processes behind recruitment and retention at some of the world's most influential businesses. Today's Talent All-Star is Raúl Valentin, the Chief Human Resources Officer at ABM, which is one of the world's largest providers of facility engineering and infrastructure solutions. It might not be a household name, but ABM employs 130,000 team members worldwide. And once you know the brand, you'll probably start noticing their frontline team members everywhere you go.
So today on the show, how Raúl got to where he is by saying yes to new career opportunities, and how his own operations experience. Helps him support abms massive distributed workforce and how he makes a successful pitch in the boardroom. So let's bring him in. Raúl Valentine, welcome to Talent All-Stars. Thank you.
So excited to have you today, so much to talk about. So, tell me a little bit on your path. You've been a CHRO now for several years, but on your path, you came up through HR and had several different types of roles along the way for people who are thinking about viewing that big C-level seat as being the culmination of their career, where they want to get to. Where did you realize that going for something, a role that big at a company, the size of ABM, was the right path for you?
[00:01:50] Raúl Valentín: Thank you. Great question, Dave. A little add to that, my first job outta college was actually an operations. I worked for a retailer, then I did a rotation into like personnel. I'll date myself before it was HR. And in that rotation, what I found was I was moving very quickly, and I was being promoted and I was, people were like saying, Hey, we love working with you. And it was because I was speaking the language of the business, not the language of hr, and I didn't know any better. I felt like, well, of course this is what I was, but when they were having problems, I.
In a store or with an employee. I had the perspective of what that was like, 'cause I was a manager. I was on the floor. I was dealing with this, and that served me well throughout the rest of my career. I would say. Then once in hr, for me at least, it was about getting experiences and early on I had no idea I would, what I wanted to be when I grew up type thing. You know, probably a few years ago I was still saying, what am I gonna be when I grow up? I liked what I was doing. I was always open or curious about different opportunities within hr. So whether it was a generalist job or a recruiting job, or being given other opportunities, global expansion jobs, going to work on M and As, I've pretty much said yes to everything that was sometimes offered in most cases. There were a couple times I said no, and what I learned when I said no was. I was really narrow in my thinking when I saw other people take the job that I said, oh, that's not a job for me. That seems like a very narrow, I'd see someone take the job and make it something much more than I thought it could be, and I was, wow.
I'm limiting myself. Like someone's asking me about an opportunity and I'm saying no for the all the wrong reasons. So that taught me to say yes. Um, and then take that perspective of being curious, learning, and again, always remembering to learn the business. Like what am I trying to solve for which we're a support function. And I do believe support's not a dirty word, like it's the business is the business. The more I know the business, the better I can support the business and partner with the business, and gain their respect.
[00:03:35] Dave Travers: Okay, so one of the super interesting things there is you talked a couple times about learning the business and speaking the language of the business, rather as a contrasting that with the language of HR. So for somebody who's coming up through hr, if I'm one of your rising stars in your organization, but you hear me being too grounded in hr, not knowing enough about the business, not speaking to the rest of the business in their own language. How do you identify that in yourself as a rising HR leader, and how do you get the snowball rolling downhill to be a business leader as opposed to just an HR leader? How do you do it?
[00:04:09] Raúl Valentín: That's a great question. And it's being vigilant, I guess, in content. So one is setting the expectation. So it starts there like just expecting within our community. And I say the HR community, 'cause I've got communications and real estate and all that because this applies for everyone, right? It's like how well do you know the business? And it starts with if we hire them and they're new. It's making sure they go spend time in the business. And it's not like the presidential wave or the queen's wave, right? It's go spend a day, go spend days with like at the frontline we have a hundred thousand plus frontline employees who work in engineering and cleaning and all kinds of different areas and different industry verticals.
Go spend the time and walk in their shoes, shadow them for a, then spend another day working with the managers, 'cause our managers aren't desk employees, right? They're moving from site to site. We're a highly distributed workforce where over probably 20,000 sites, right? So what I found early on, even when I came here was I was surprised how many people would say, I am pushing these messages out to managers. They're not being responsive. And I'd go, well, do you know what their jobs are? And do you know what they're doing? And often, I got the answer was no. They didn't know because they'd never been out there. And they said, well, I'm just pushing into a manager. And I came from my other company and they did that.
And then once they went out, they came back and said, oh, the manager isn't really just sitting at their desk. They're like, they're living in their car. They're going from site to site. They go to a location and they turn on their laptop, and the Citrix isn't working. They can't get through the firewall of a client site, and now they can't connect. They've got a really short window. So it sounds really tactical, but. Seeing it through those eyes all of a sudden changes everything. You're thinking about, how do I connect with them? How do I communicate to them, how do I support them? Why when they call, there are these windows. And it then challenges us to think about what are the hours for our shared services center like, and they weren't open late for California folks.
Well, that's a miss, right? And how are we thinking, and are we going on site? So those are the things. So it starts with onboarding, making sure you build a robust onboarding and exposure. When you're hiring people, it's selecting them. How do they spend their time? Who do they connect with? Do they have a passion for the business? There are people that genuinely love their trade call that compensation, call, that recruiting, who think, Hey, that's just what I want to do and absent doing it for this business and this culture, that's not good enough for me and for the organization. So it's an expectation. It's making sure you screen for it.
When you hire, then it's onboarding, then it's setting that expectation. So I'd like to think when I meet with teams and when I talk and people I've hired. That's what they also reflect. 'cause it can't just be me, right? That I can't scale it well enough. And then you reinforce it. So, even like we have an upcoming town hall coming where, not my credit, the comms team has done a great job soliciting positive recognition from the operations teams for the HR folks. And it's videotaped. And during my town hall, we're gonna play video and vignettes where an operational leader is recognizing one of the folks in the HR community. That's huge, right? And that's reinforces, hey, you're working hard. It's not always appreciated, but it's sometimes appreciated more than you realize.
[00:06:58] Dave Travers: I think what's so great about the video vignettes specifically, like everyone loves the shout out for job well done, and it's a great way to positively reinforce, but showing HR leaders or leaders of any type, whether it's the internal customer, the external customer, having them describe what was great in their own language. You learn not only what's valued but how it's described, like even the words that you read in the manual are different as it comes outta the internal customer's mouth. I love that. Okay, so one of the interesting things, as you talked about getting closer to the business, getting closer to your business, that's really interesting is you mentioned 20,000 locations.
So that brings up a whole people management set of challenges. How do you even think about, like for somebody who works in a company of good scale, but manages a handful of locations, like how do you even think about how the challenges are different when you're that distributed?
[00:07:51] Raúl Valentín: Yeah, I think it forces me and my team to like, just know that it's never a, there's not a silver bullet. There's no one-size-fits-all all. There is the reality that we, even in terms of building culture with our management teams, with our frontline team members, it's really hard because they spend their day working at a client site, right? And whether it's at an airport, a manufacturing site, a school trying to say, how best do we connect?
How do we cascade messages to that frontline folks? It's also being aware that there's gonna be. We're trying to drive scale and consistency, but there's going to be variation that is okay. It's how do we help that though at least live to our core values, our core success behaviors. So trying to repeat and cascade those informations in a way that is easily understood, but then easily delivered because again. In some of our locations, we have our rooms. Our engineers may go in and out of and change into their uniforms, but that's all we have in that site. They're not walking through our employee entrance. They're walking through a client's employee entrance. So the signage, the posters, the call to action are not ours.
We're in this room, so how do we make sure that when we give managers those frontline managers messages, that it's not overly burdensome and taxing, which is why you've gotta spend the time out there to. If you didn't see that and experience it firsthand, it's hard to understand what works. Trying to stay connected would be the other piece. So we do a good job. I don't wanna say we do a great job. I'd love to think even better, but just recently, when I had my leadership team meeting and we did sitting sessions with frontline leaders, and we bring them in and we say, what's working, what's not working? And that keeps us fresh. And they'll say, when you send emails on a Monday, that's really long.
[00:09:25] Raúl Valentín: That's, I'm not getting to that, it's not helping me. Or if you send me this, why can't I go here? So it's consistently, if you think of it like a consumer group, if you're in marketing, it's how are you constantly listening to what the customer's needing? So you're trying to, it's an iterative process there, but that's the challenge.
And as you might imagine, you think of times like COVID, every client had their own approach for what they were doing for safety. Yeah. So at that, so there it was also being really deliberate and intentional about our safety culture, right? Safety is incredibly important for us. So we had a minimum standard of what we thought was appropriate.
And if they could not adhere to that, that meant there were calls all the way up their chain to say, Hey, that's not acceptable, or you wanna go so far that that also is not in the respect and the privacy of our team members and we need to talk about that. So it creates a lot of nuances and a lot of different work that maybe a lot of folks are accustomed to.
[00:10:12] Dave Travers: Yeah. So first of all, imagine. That as someone who might come from a organization where you have fewer than 20,000 locations, when you have 500 people or a thousand people on a site and fewer sites, that there's so many crutches you can use and fail safes because you have so many people on site, so many eyes on you don't get the benefit of that when you're that distributed the way you are clearly.
And one of the interesting things about that is the need. The possibility of using technology to help you deliver better for all those distributed employees. So we're in a world of an abundance of new technology options all the time that are trying to sell to HR or be developed, or potential to use. How do you as a discerning customer of that knowing that technology's an incredible enabler. But in the cascade of all the different noise out there of different people selling you new AI services, new ways to provide benefits, whatever it is, how do you think about that? How do you become a discerning customer of all the technology out there?
I think you do a lot of listening. We try and find people that we think understand our population. Right? Which is hard 'cause there are not a lot of companies like us. I mean, there are a lot of companies that have more employees than do we do, but they don't show up the same way at the sites back to the control.
So even the notion of we're in beta with sharing devices with our frontline team members so that there's a better way to, but even when we do that, depending on our client, they may not want our employees to have devices on their sites in certain areas. It's not our company, it's not our site. So it's not even as straightforward as, oh, here's a great device, here's a great tool. We're just gonna give it to them. You still have to work with your client to say, is this gonna be comfortable? What are the protocols that you want? So everything always has a slightly different nuance around flexibility, um, and doing that. But when we look at it, a lot of my questions are in the most simplest way.
We've got at least three different groups, right? Our largest group is our frontline hourly team members, call that a hundred thousand people. Maybe 110. Then we have staff in management call that about 10,000 people. Then we have leadership, which is 300 people, right? Yeah. So how do those target audience, so I look at it a lot like that when I'm discerning the, what does this fit? One size doesn't always fit all. When you think about our a hundred thousand plus, it's usually English as a second or third language. So what's really exciting about AI is that will really change that significantly much easier. Now, in terms of communication methodology or modality, right? In terms of, we've been testing an HR coach with AI, which I think, to your question, is wonderful on so many levels.
For me, one is the language, and we're already hearing this like, Hey, I can talk in Hindu, or I can talk in Spanish, and I can converse, and the person's fully, and that's my mother tongue, and that makes a lot of sense. Two is its accessibility. 20,000 sites. Some operations 24/7, some operations start at seven at night, our access is challenged, right? So all of a sudden, now there's an HR coach that's virtual through a chat that makes it really great for that person who has the need to be coached or to be supported on an employee relations issue, if you will, or just a coaching issue at any time. So again, it starts with how well do you know the business, what are you trying to solve for, and then what's scalable for us, at least as I look at the world of everything that comes to me and a lot of it doesn't fit, a lot of it's made for desk employees. Or for controlled sites. So it's being a little patient and then finding some partners that are, I too look for what are the right partners that have the desire to wanna be flexible and agile with us.
[00:13:36] Dave Travers: So I think that's super smart, and I think a lot of people have gotten in HR, in particular, have gotten to the point where they identify the tool or ability to do something better that's gonna require some technology. But then convincing yourself is the early stage. Now you gotta convince a whole other set of people, both internally to your own team, and then go to finance and get approval and get resources. As you think about as a young leader, I. Going and advocating for resources, the first time you've got an amazing piece of technology. It's gonna improve things you've convinced yourself. How do I now successfully go convince others and get it done?
[00:14:17] Raúl Valentín: Yeah, I, I think that's great. And we are, you know, a business that's a lean operation. So that's a true challenge. But I think there's a couple of things. My takeaways, one is when I think of resources, I think of three things. It's people, time, and money, right? So it's not any one of those, sometimes it's all three of those, one of those, right? So being really thought. But ultimately, you've gotta own it and you've gotta own it. What I've found in different industries and different people is part of it is the ROI and how you come forward with the case, right?
And what's the business return? What are you solving? And again, the more you understand the business, the easier that is, right? When I'm sitting across the COO or CEO and saying, Hey, our frontline leaders are struggling when they try and call someone and they need support at 10 o'clock at night. Let's be real. They're not gonna find a lot of HR people that are gonna respond to that. So yes, this investment in an HR coach that's virtual is gonna solve this, which makes it greater. And oh, by the way, that coaching also helps them when they're dealing with client issues. So now I'm not saying I'm doing this for HR, I'm doing this on behalf of the company and on behalf of that leader and that individual.
So that really helps. But two is, I've gotta own it. Like often, I worked for someone once before who would say, people would joke and say that they have the impression. I always got everything I wanted. And I went to him once 'cause someone asked me to ask for them for an approval or something, and he looked at me and said, why are you asking me about this? And I said, 'cause everyone thinks you say yes to me and you say no to everyone else. So he laughed. He said no. What they don't realize is when I say no to them, they give up and they never come back. So if their conviction isn't strong enough that they give up the first time. Of course I'm not gonna say yes and says, you on the other hand are a little stubborn, and when I say no like a week later, I almost nine outta 10 times, you're not gonna let it fall off because we all know, even if it's the best thing that you're trying to implement, you're gonna run into roadblocks, right? Things in your control, out of your control. And if you don't have that conviction, it's not gonna lead anywhere. So his management style was one of, like, I always say no first, and I see if they come back, right? But I think that there's a benefit there for people, especially early in career, that it's, they're looking for others to blame why they didn't get it done versus.
Is your heart in it? Is your passion in it? Are you committed to it? Are you gonna see it through high and low? And if you're not, then why should I take that chance if you're not gonna take that chance? So that's at least what drives me. It took us three years to get a recognition platform, but every year you could count on I was gonna push for a recognition platform, right? And it's not because I was being thick and stubborn, 'cause I think it's the right thing and there's a time and place. And I don't also look at it as a personal affront. When the answer's no, there are times I took it off the table because from a prioritization around capacity in the organization and even my own teams or myself, 'cause I, I can easily get enamored with shiny, bright objects, right?
Even that, I'd be like, do we really have the capacity this year to do that? We'd love to do it, but can we really do it? And the more we're honest with ourselves and say, look, we only have so much capacity. For kind of discretionary stuff versus what's the BAU, business as usual. That is really important as well. Otherwise, you lose credibilit,y and maybe that, I didn't talk about that, but it is about credibility and you know, we built these kind of success behaviors and one of them is about accountability and the other one's collaboration. But the accountability is you've gotta be accountable for what you're signing up for, and not you and not your team and blame someone else. I believe in this and I'm gonna stand by it.
[00:17:26] Dave Travers: I love it, and I think it's one thing to be stubborn, but it's another thing to be stubborn with deep knowledge of the business so that you are. Hearing the evolving needs of the business, and you're coming back a second time, and connecting the dots with you. Remember this issue we've just been talking about for the first half hour of this meeting, and how difficult this is. I really think that's an interesting framework to think about. This new initiative I want to try out. And so when you're listening. And incorporating new information and incorporating objections into your pitch, that comes across as very different than saying, Hey, I had three bullet points last week.
I'm just gonna come knock you down with them again. That's right. Yeah. Okay. We always finish these episodes with a rapid-fire sort of lightning round. So I want you to think about bumping into the CEO of ABM in the elevator or getting a cup of coffee, and when the CEO comes to you and says, Hey, RO, I've been thinking about our talent function and just how important our people are, how should we measure? Over the next year how our talent function is doing and our talent team is doing. What's your answer?
[00:18:31] Raúl Valentín: I think it starts with, you know, the measurement, the classic, traditional, right, time to fill, cost per hire, quality of hire. Then I think it's the softer ones, which are a little tougher, but it's how does the talent make us feel? And it is a feeling right about our capability. To achieve our strategic goals. I think every company is talking about how do they upskill and that's no different for us at a BM, right? How do we take our existing population? We have a lot of internal promotions we promote from inside. So what are we doing to make sure that we're elevating our own talent, not just elevating our strategy around tech and data and the experience, but how we elevate their skills so that they can be part of the journey we're on.
But the measures are important, right? And a CEO's clearly gonna say, how effective are you at these things? And I've gotta make sure I add not only the quantitative piece, but the qualitative component.
[00:19:14] Dave Travers: There's nothing more powerful than pairing an anecdote with a powerful piece of data that gives you both the specific and the human with the statistical. It makes it really powerful. Okay, second scenario this time, instead of a CEO, a peer of yours who's thinking about taking on a new CHRO gig they're being recruited for asks you, Hey, Raúl, what? Gimme your advice, like, how should I think about evaluating? Where this HR function is today. Like here I am, I'm gonna spend a couple hours on site, I'm gonna interview with a bunch of people. What's your framework? What are your tricks for thinking about, how do I get a sense of where they're at today?
[00:19:55] Raúl Valentín: That's a really good question. I, I think, again, I tend to be operationally focused. I've said, so I like talking to more operators and understand what's working, what's not working today within the function. Like, what are your expectations of the function? What are they delivering on when not, and it's interesting maybe in how you put the question, 'cause for me, it's about what do I wanna build, right? So I just wanna understand what it is, but I'm not expecting the answer to be perfect, 'cause if it was perfect, they probably wouldn't be looking for me.
They'd have someone, right? So I wanna understand. Do we have a common understanding, or can I articulate a vision to them that they react positively to, right. Which is what I'm looking for because 'cause odds are, they're dissatisfied in many cases, whether they should be or not. But it's more when I say, well, here's how I would go about it, or here's how I'm thinking about it. Or here's. The questions I'd have, 'cause I often get asked the question, well, what's your framework for how you would do this within hr? What's your model? And I say, I don't have a model. It depends where the business is and depends what you're trying to accomplish. Right? There isn't, again, one size fits all, but it's understanding then what's that dialogue?
Are they okay with that, or are they, sometimes some people get put off by that, and they want, oh no, I'm gonna go to page seven, pull it out, and this is what I'm gonna do for you. That's not who I am. And I don't think that's normally the right answer. So that's what I would coach someone and say, can you see yourself going to battle with these people that are gonna be your colleagues? And what's their expectation of the function? And are you comfortable with that expectation? And that they'll give you the freedom, quote unquote, and the partnership to deliver against those.
[00:21:16] Dave Travers: I love it. Raúl Valentín, it is so clear why you're Talent All-Star. Thanks so much for taking the time to be with us today.
[00:21:23] Raúl Valentín: Alright, well thank you. It has been a pleasure.
[00:21:29] Dave Travers: That's Raúl Valentín, the Chief Human Resources Officer at ABM. We'll put his LinkedIn profile in the notes below. And just a reminder, we put the video versions of these conversations on YouTube, also on the official ZipRecruiter channel. And if you have feedback for us or ideas for future episodes, send us an email at talentallstars@ziprecruiter.com. I'm Dave Travers. Thanks for listening to Talent All Stars. See you next time.