Have you ever seen a leader enthusiastically roll out a “best practice”–without asking whether those practices actually fit the organization?
In this episode of Talent All-Stars, Beverly Propst, SVP - Human Resources at Fortune 500 electrical and tech distributor Graybar, shares why even the most widely accepted strategies can fail if they don’t align with your company’s culture.
With 20+ years of leadership experience and a literal “seat at the table” (she joined Graybar’s board in 2009), Beverly explains how to build programs that actually stick—and what to watch out for when adapting ideas from other organizations.
She also shares:
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[00:00:00] Beverly Propst: I think it's a huge mistake to just rely on best practice for everything. Culture plays such a big role. Does this feel like us? Does this feel strange if we don't do that homework? If we just say, okay, this is what everybody else is doing, and we try to implement the program or fail.
[00:00:15] Dave Travers: So, what does it really take for your business to attract world-class talent today? I'm Dave Travers, president of ZipRecruiter, and on Talent All-Stars, we shine a light on the people and the day-to-day processes behind recruitment and retention at some of the world's most influential businesses. Today's Talent All-Star comes from a Fortune 500 company that's not necessarily a household name, but which gets rave employee reviews and plays a critical role in construction infrastructure in manufacturing.
Beverly Propst is the Senior Vice President of Human Resources at Graybar, a distributor of electrical communications and industrial products based outside St. Louis. She's also on several boards, including gray bars. Something we'll touch on later in the conversation. So let's bring her in. Beverly Propst, welcome to Talent All Stars.
[00:01:03] Beverly Propst: Thank you so much. I am so happy to be here today.
[00:01:06] Dave Travers: We're thrilled to have you here. So many interesting things to talk about. You and your background, Graybar, et cetera. You have an interesting path that took you, many people have interesting paths to taking you in your career, but this is one that I don't encounter all the time, which is.
At the beginning of your career, you went from being corporate counsel on the legal side of things and moved into hr. How did you think about that at the time? Was that something you were thinking about at the time, and how do you think about it now? Looking back on what that prepared you for in that approach to this role?
[00:01:34] Beverly Propst: I did. I had a really interesting transition into the HR realm, and it was exciting to say the least. One day, I was an attorney. The next day, I was running the HR group for a Fortune 500 company, which is, it was a crazy experience, but it was so fulfilling, and for me it was overnight. It was also something that was a transition that was relatively easy for me because I had worked so hard to integrate myself with the HR team over a period of time. I was an employment attorney for Graybar, and that was something that I had done for a number of years. I'd actually worked as an employment attorney for a private, a law firm for a while. And then come to Graybar.
Worked in-house as an employment attorney as well, and then got to know our HR team. Worked with our senior vice president of HR here. Got to know our executives, got to know the HR leadership team. But I really became, I think, an adjunct member of their teams when they would have a staff meeting, when they would have a strategic retreat or what have you. I was always there. So I think for me, I had really just become part and parcel to their group. So it was an interesting transition, but I think it was kind of natural when it happened.
[00:02:46] Dave Travers: That's awesome. So you were a known quantity. How was it different when you stepped from being the legal advisor into the one responsible?
[00:02:54] Beverly Propst: Certainly it was a different subject matter for sure, because I, I was always on the compliance side. I was there to advise and help the HR department get through all of their compliance issues, make sure we were on top. Of all the latest laws and regulations, and then of course assist if there were any problems that occurred, which were few and far between, I'm happy to say at Graybar, but they do happen.
But now I was able to go into the more proactive issues. I was able to say, okay, how can we take this company to the next level? How can we really work on our strategic people plan? How can we work on our talent segment? And that was something I hadn't done before. So for me, that was what was really exciting about the job, was I got to shift my focus and start thinking about things that I'd really never thought about, I was always on the side of things of how do we fix problems, not how do we want prevent problems, but then how do we take the company to the next level? And that just awakened something in me. That rule really, really exciting. And I think kinda see me smiling here, but I still get excited when I think about it.
[00:03:56] Dave Travers: In my own experience as somebody who's had to call outside counsel before, like I usually don't call the outside attorney just to say, Hey, I wanted to let you know. Beverly, everything's going great. Hope you're having a great day. Like that's not usually the reason that I reach out. And so I can imagine shifting into the operational role, now you get the full picture, not just the problems.
[00:04:15] Beverly Propst: Yeah, let's have lunch. Right. I'll tell you everything, all the fun things I'm working on.
[00:04:19] Dave Travers: No, it just doesn't, doesn't happen on the flip side, I think what's interesting for a lot of people who don't come to the legal background is compliance and the legal side of people is so important to the role, but if you don't come from a legal background, it's very hard as you rise into the senior ranks at the beginning to think about, now that I'm a risk manager, myself and a decision maker, I've gotta take legal counsel into consideration, but ultimately I'm the business decision maker now. And doing that for the first time can be very intimidating for people who don't have that background. So as somebody with steeped in that background who's been on both sides of that table, and for somebody who's listening, who's dealing with that earlier on in their career who doesn't have all that background? How do you approach that as the decision maker when there's a, you know, I have in my gut what's right for our team and I have a series of sometimes bright line rules, but sometimes shade of gray sort of guidance too. How do you think about that?
[00:05:17] Beverly Propst: That was a little bit of a new concept for me, and I think what was. The most stark realization for me, and this may, I think for a lot of the people listening might be really obvious, but for an attorney coming into a role, it was not obvious at all. Business people don't always listen to advice, and I know that sounds crazy because thought, huh?
I thought everybody listened to everything. I told them I thought sitting in my office, whether it was at a law firm or whether it was in my company, that I gave this great sage advice, these wise words of wisdom, right? That this is what you should do, whether it's the law or just really good information about the best way to perceive in any situation. In my mind, everybody just listened to this wonderful advice, and they went and installed the advice, and it went forward. And the truth of the matter is, did they ever, I don't have an idea, but certainly when I got into the role of being in charge of a, you know, a department like this found out very quickly.
That is not what happens at all. And I had to reshift my thinking entirely and stretch some new muscles. Because the importance of one, knowing your audience, understanding really the more subtle intricacies of working in a business, understanding the what's going on around you and giving advice that fits the business and gets to the end result that you need.
Taking points into account other than the absolute textbook answer is so important. I think we can all learn from that. It didn't take me long to figure it out, but it did take me a minute because I had been living in a bubble for a long time.
[00:07:00] Dave Travers: A hundred percent. I think a lot of people who start out not on the legal side, go through that as well for the first time when you're a manager and it's like, huh, I told my people to do something, and they don't always do it exactly the way, and then the big breakthrough for me was realizing like a lot of the time they don't do it the way I said to them. They were right. Like now I'm discovering. I'm really grateful that they went ahead and did it the smarter way, which is a big breakthrough. Okay. Graybar's a super fascinating company.
You've obviously been there for a long time, both on the outside now, but on the inside for a long time now as well. And so it's a Fortune 500 company that a lot of people haven't heard of as much as some other Fortune 500 companies, but an incredible culture and a really unique structure. So as a people leader, how do you think about adapting processes and practices and thinking about what is best practice?
How does it work at most companies versus a unique company and culture that like Graybar has, and how do you weigh those two things about, yeah, we're gonna do it uniquely our own way, or there's some sort of best practice out there that we can just implement.
[00:08:03] Beverly Propst: Right. I think it's a huge mistake to just rely on best practice for everything. Best practice is a good thing to know and to look at and to evaluate, and it's always important to understand what's out there and what are the majority of other companies doing, but. To say that we're gonna implement every best practice, that would be huge mistake. And so culture plays such a big role in what's going on in an organization and whether or not a best practice will fit.
Are we ready for it, so to speak? If we are ready for it, then we have to say, does our culture support it? Will our leaders and managers embrace this best practice? Or is there something we need to do first? Are there other things we need to socialize first? Is there education we need to do? Does it fit with us?
Does this feel like us? Does this feel strange? Are there other things that need to be discussed first? Are there other programs that would need to be introduced before this program comes into effect? If we don't do that homework, if we just say, okay, this sounds good. This is what everybody else is doing, and we try to implement, what we'll find is the program will fail.
It won't be accepted, it'll be rejected. And then we'll find out. We did a whole lot of work for nothing, and we just really caused a lot of commotion within the organization. I think it's doing your homework, doing your legwork, understanding what's going on. And um, last thing I'll say on this is asking some people, talking to your leaders, talking to your employees, talking to people in the organization, and understanding. Before we put in a best practice, is this even something that would be helpful?
[00:09:30] Dave Travers: It requires a lot of confidence to make those sorts of judgements because sometimes you're gonna find yourself in a place where you talk to people and they say, we can't do that. And you have to explain to them, we have to do that for these other reasons.
And that takes a lot of confidence and it also takes a lot of confidence to talk to people. In the industry or the experts, so to speak, and they say, this is the way you do it. Everyone does it this way. It's a mistake not to. And for you to have the confidence to say, actually, I've thought about it, thought about our culture, and we're gonna do it a different way. That takes a lot of confidence to be able to make those decisions,
[00:10:03] Beverly Propst: Right. But you know, every company's a little different. Every organization's a little different and it's okay. And that's, I think, the way that we can differentiate. We can have our own value propositions. And that's why we can attract talent in different types of talent, different people. It's what makes us all unique as organizations.
[00:10:22] Dave Travers: People love knowing that they're going to a place that's not a cookie-cutter, that has a real sense of self. I think that's so right. Okay. One of the other things that's really interesting about Graybar. Is it's clear from the outside that you're an example of this, but by far not the only one.
It's very clear that a lot of people have been at Graybar for a long time, and you're not alone in having a unique path. There's a lot of internal mobility where it's not just straight up through the organization. How do you think about as a leader who's trying to develop internal mobility that isn't as far along as you, how would you advise someone on like, what can you learn? How can you get the program started so you cultivate more of your own talent and find more internal mobility?
[00:11:06] Beverly Propst: There's a thought out in the world that you need to switch jobs every few years. And this really permeates universities. It permeates the work world. And we have been at Graybar a promote from within company for as long as we've been in existence. And we're not the only ones. There are other great promote from within companies, but when I talk to young people, I always say every company can be a promote from within company. It's all about whether employees take advantage of the resources that are there. I. For them within their organizations. There are so many good organizations out there, and Graybar is certainly one of them.
And I talk about this all the time. We've got great training resources. There are so many opportunities to apply for jobs internally, but it's all about the employee taking advantage of those. And I would bet if you go to many organizations out there, those opportunities are there as well. But are employees taking advantage of them?
Are you looking to see if there are jobs posted? Are you applying for those jobs? Are you taking classes online? Are you asking your manager about opportunities to broaden your skillset? Are you volunteering for projects? Are you raising your hand when there's something new that you could learn about?
And if you're not doing those things, if you're not reaching out and growing your skillset. Then you won't be looked at when it's time to for that next promotion and time to grow your career, and then your career stagnates and you don't have those promotional opportunities. Now at Graybar, we make a special effort to ensure that those things happen and we have internal programs to really help map employees careers.
But if an organization doesn't have those programs in place, employees can make that happen on their own. Very, very easily by just taking advantage of very, you know, simple systems that are in place, I think in most companies. So I would encourage everyone out there who's listening, you can do this yourself, even if your company doesn't have that.
[00:13:02] Dave Travers: I love that. And I love the idea of measuring, not the checklist of do we have these systems or do we have these policies in place, but are people actually using them? Which is a test for someone who says, I wish there were opportunities for me as an individual. But it's also a test for an organization that if you have a policy that no one's utilizing or a benefit that no one's utilizing, do you really have that benefit?
I love that. Another interesting thing that I think is different than a lot of other people, leaders is a lot of people, leaders dream of getting to the point in their career where they get to do board work, and you are in the position whereas an employee-owned company and where in the structure of Graybar you are on the board of Graybar, you literally do have a seat at the table that people dream about.
What is that like, and what do you think is different about literally being at the boardroom versus what a people leader who's on the outside looking in and dreaming of what that would be like? What's the difference between the perception of what it might be and what the reality is?
[00:14:03] Beverly Propst: Serving on a board of directors is certainly a privilege, and it's an honor for me to be on Graybar's board, and I've been on the board since 2009. And I also serve on company boards for two other organizations, two private companies. And what's really interesting about serving on a board, and I would encourage HR leaders to search out those opportunities because. More and more companies are adding HR leaders to their boards of directors.
So there are opportunities available is to seek out the training that they need to do that, and also the education, and of course, the experience that they would need. But what's so interesting about the board opportunities is you get to see the organization at a different level. It's no longer looking at how the organization is operating, but looking at the governance of the organization, the strategy of the organization, and really helping to guide the organization on its path forward with a long-term view. So it's less of the day-to-day management, essentially, none of the day-to-day management, but really thinking about is this company well positioned to survive and thrive in the longer term?
And to me, that's very rewarding and it's very interesting to not only. Get to view a company in that sense, but also to expose myself to different industries, different practices, different executive teams, and get outside of my normal day-to-day work.
[00:15:23] Dave Travers: I think that's super insightful and it is very true that lots of boards are looking now. Boards deal with people issues all the time, and they're increasingly of the view that they should have someone who brings that expertise into the tapestry of the boardroom and all the different expertise there. If you were getting started on that journey, how would you prepare yourself? I'm now a people leader. I'm running a people team. How do I get myself thought of or prepare myself, so I'm a more natural candidate for that?
[00:15:52] Beverly Propst: I would say there's a few different things to do. There are great education opportunities out there, board. Preparation classes, major universities have these in their executive education platforms, and so I would highly encourage those and what those classes do, in addition to teaching you about what it means to be on a board, they also get you highly networked within the board communities, and that's essential because most board positions you'll find are gained through networking.
And you'll learn how to network, but you'll also begin to build a network through those programs. And then the second thing is to begin to network. Once you have the education, you have the background because you've attained a high-level HR position, then you begin to network. And quite frankly, it takes a bit of time to get the network going and to begin to create some momentum, but with some perseverance and some hard work, eventually. You'll hopefully get into a position where you can have that networking payoff.
[00:16:51] Dave Travers: I think that's exactly right. And the daunting thing about it for a lot of people as they get started is it's not just like, oh, who's the person I need to go have a 15-minute coffee with, so that I can then be thought of as a board member. This is a much longer-term, longer game they have to play, but it is, you're exactly right that developing those skills and being seen invisible a few times in the right places with the right skillset behind you is super helpful. Okay, so at the end of these episodes, we always finish with the lightning round, and it's super interesting for you.
Usually, the scenario we paint is you're in the elevator with the CEO. Or you bump into the CEO making a cup of coffee or something, but in this case, you're already in the boardroom. So we get to say, when you're in that moment in the boardroom where a fellow board member or the CEO says, Beverly, how should we be measuring the effectiveness of the people team over the coming year? What's the smart answer to that?
[00:17:46] Beverly Propst: For me, it's margin per employee or sales organization. We're not bringing that in, doesn't matter. Or it's employment expense as a percenta margin. That's it. It comes down to bottom line. Are we doing there?
[00:17:59] Dave Travers: Yeah. I love that because those are business metrics, and if you are being asked by a business person, a business question, speaking HR to them, and HR is really important, they're important HR specific metrics as well. But speaking back to them as a fellow business person and being clear that you're aligned to the, you know, what are the big questions facing the board. At the beginning of the meeting and the end of the meeting, you want to give your answer about your department, how you're contributing to that. I absolutely love that.
Okay. Same scenario. You're in the board meeting, and Beverly, what's the number one skillset we need to be attracting over the next few years to prepare our organization for all that's coming in the world, in our industry, and technolog,y and the skills that we'll need in the future? What's the skill we need?
[00:18:41] Beverly Propst: It's agility. We see too many people coming in. A very specific idea of what they're going to do and locking in on it. The world's changing faster and faster and faster, and there's no way you know today what you're going to be doing 10 years from now, probably five years from now. So I truly believe that the workforce is gonna come in and we will be training, retraining, and retraining. So, having that ability and willingness to change multiple times during your career, and to have that flexibility and agility to do so. Is critical.
[00:19:16] Dave Travers: So true. It's funny, I imagine you're in the same position where I'm the person sometimes at a Thanksgiving dinner or at a family get together that's asked for advice on what should I major in or what should I do next, and do you think I should do computer science or economics or something?
And my answer to that is right along the lines of agility is like. Honestly, it doesn't matter. What you need to do is learn how to learn. If you're the person who your boss and your boss's boss knows, if I just put Beverly on this for two weeks, she's gonna be an expert at the end of the, those two weeks on whatever the thing is, none of us saw coming.
That's the person we need and want. And you're right, the world is changing fast. Okay, one more. Let's talk about talent here in particular, when we're talking about recruiting and developing people, what's the one thing if you were assessing some. Talent team at another company. What's the one thing that separates a highly effective talent team from one that's just doing so?
[00:20:13] Beverly Propst: I know you said this focus on talent, but I think this goes for every single team within an HR group is there has to be a process to focus on long-term initiatives that's separate from the day to day, because this is where every team gets caught up. There is a tendency in HR to have the urgent take precedence over the important, and I see this across the board, and it's certainly no different in talent.
And when that happens, we don't get progress. We don't get adoption of technology, we don't get really focus on the things that matter. We deal with just what's coming into our inbox today and who's screaming today, and that sets us all back. So there must be some way to take those important things and put them front and center every single day. You've got to find a way to carve that out. And if you don't, you won't be successful.
[00:21:07] Dave Travers: I once asked a mentor of mine who'd run multiple different organizations of different types successfully. You know, I was 25, I think at the time. I'm just saying like, if I'm in your role someday, what's the one thing I should know? And he said, never let your inbox drive what's in your outbox. Don't be a hostage to whatever people are pinging you with you. Whatever you're sending out has to be what's important, regardless of what's flowing in. I think that's super powerful frame. Beverly Propst, it's so clear why you're a Talent All-Star. Thanks so much for taking the time with us today.
[00:21:41] Beverly Propst: You're welcome. It was a pleasure.
[00:21:46] Dave Travers: That's Beverly Propst. The SVP of Human Resources at Graybar. We’ll drop her LinkedIn profile in the notes below. And just a reminder, we put the video versions of these conversations on YouTube on the official ZipRecruiter channel. And just a reminder, we put the video versions of these conversations on YouTube on the official ZipRecruiter channel. If you have feedback for us or ideas for future episodes, send us an email at talentallstars@ziprecruiter.com. I'm Dave Travers. Thanks for listening to Talent All-Stars, and we'll see you next time.