JLL helps organizations buy, build, lease, and operate the spaces where business happens, from hospitals and data centers to offices and logistics hubs. Behind this global real estate and investment-management powerhouse is a talent operation that keeps more than 100,000 people moving in over 80 countries.
In this episode, Jane Curran, Global Head of HR Operations at JLL, shares how she built a career defined by curiosity, courage, and commercial thinking. Her leadership philosophy is simple but powerful: be high energy, low maintenance, and fall in love with the problem. From mentoring teams across continents to re-engineering HR technology and AI processes, Jane reveals how she turns people strategy into business advantage at scale.
Jane explains:
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[00:00:00] Jane Curran: I think you know, the instant reaction of like, let me come in and fix it. I can do it faster. And then being like, no, it's more about we all are moving together as one, and you have to coach and upskill and quickly figure out who's good at what.
[00:00:12] Dave Travers: So what does it really take for your business to attract world-class talent today?
I'm Dave Travers, President of ZipRecruiter, and on Talent All Stars, we shine a light on the people and the day-to-day processes behind recruitment and retention at some of the world's most influential businesses. When your business spans more than 80 countries and a hundred thousand employees, talent operations become the engine that keeps everything moving at Jones Lang LaSalle; that talent powers the way the world works.
JLL is one of the world's leading real estate and investment management firms. Helping organizations buy, build, lease, and operate the spaces where business happens, from offices and hospitals to logistic centers and data hubs, and leading the people systems. Behind it all is Jane Curran, Global Head of HR Operations.
She has a wealth of knowledge to share in this episode, so without further delay, let's bring her in. Jane Curran from JLL. Welcome to Talent All Stars.
[00:01:10] Jane Curran: Thanks, Dave. Great to be here.
[00:01:11] Dave Travers: So excited to have you here with so much interesting stuff in your background and what you've done and what you are doing to get to.
But before we get to all that today, I wanna start out with earlier in your career, as specific as you can think of, when was the moment? When you started to think like, Hey, this talent thing, this recruiting thing might really be for me, this might not be just my current job. I could make a career and a calling out of this.
[00:01:38] Jane Curran: Yeah, and I guess I find myself unique in that, like I knew I wanted to do this during college, so I was fortunate enough I went to the University of Wisconsin, and I had an internship at the hospital and in the HR department. That was my goal, but it worked. And then I, um, shocking enough. They're like, where should I, we put this intern, and they gave me to the nurse recruiter, which is fascinating to me.
Cause even today, we still can't find nurses. And this was, you know, more than 20 years ago. And I just loved it. I was like, the pace, the energy, the need, and nursing is certainly different from what I do today. I mean, it is life and death, so you're really, really, really trying to match people's careers with, of a hospital, and I don't know, I was hooked. I loved that process.
Getting to know people, understanding what would work for them, what would work for them. The hospital and just doing that constant matching and then keeping in touch, right? Every time you made a connection, it was like, well, don't lose the connection 'cause that connection can come up again.
So yeah, I would say early on, and then I just continued to parlay that throughout my career. But I really did know early on that recruiting and HR was for me.
[00:02:45] Dave Travers: That's awesome. That feeling of making a connection between a person and the job that they want and would be a great fit for is a great feeling.
So I think so many of us who've been involved in this industry in some way or another have experienced that. There's no amount of that feeling that is too much, I would say. But along the way, you became not just somebody who was working in recruiting, you started to lead teams and then teams of teams.
How did that come about, and how did that change your day-to-day, and when did you realize, like maybe just being the person, shepherding the whole process and making each individual offer and each individual person connect to their next opportunity wasn't just for you, but leading teams of people that do that. How did that come about?
[00:03:31] Jane Curran: I think I'm really curious, and I love whatever business I was in. I wanted to understand the commercial aspect of it. So I just think everything, you know, you'd master a certain type of role. And then it'd be like, okay, well, what's next? Or you'd make another connection with a more senior leader, and you'd be like, well, how can I support them?
So it just was very natural. I think my complexity just kept getting bigger and the regions kept getting larger. And honestly, I never have said no to a manager. You know, if they saw something in me, I was never like, not now, I'm not ready. I just scared myself. I'm like, well, if they see, think I can do it, well then I'd better go give it a try.
So I guess for me, I didn't have some, like, you know, by this age I have to be this level, making this amount of money. I've never worried about that my entire career. I just follow the work I do great work and the opportunities. Are plentiful. So that's really what I try to coach my team too, is it's just like, do good work.
And if somebody does approach you, don't think of all the reasons why you couldn't do the work. Think of all the reasons why you could and know that you know you're gonna be supported. Have a good support system to get the work done. Also, recently I, you know, I'm always talking and either mentoring or being mentored, and a woman I really respect at our organization.
I said like, What's your mantra? And she said. High energy, low maintenance. I go, oh, could you capture anything more perfectly? Like, I pride myself on being high energy and low maintenance, and I try to find my team to be that way too. Like no ego. We are here to serve the business, do great work, and make sure our clients are happy.
And those are just some things that I've kind of led my either leadership style or how I build my team. So I guess those are some things, and then along the way, Sure did. I was every manager's fantastic. No. And the ones that were kind of like rough, I'd be like, okay, I'm never gonna do that. So I kind of built my style on like.
Okay. That didn't feel good. That didn't need to happen. We could have done that a different way. So I just, you know, lead by example, treat others as you wanna be treated. And the focus and everything is more than you. Like, why are we here? We're here to do good work, and that should be the focus. And that's how I run my team and I guess my career.
[00:05:36] Dave Travers: I think there, there's a whole, there's a whole book to be written just on that answer right there. But let me just dive in on one part that I loved, which is saying yes to a senior. An executive or a boss, or whatever, when they come to you with an opportunity. And the intuition is always like, let me think about it.
I'm really busy right now. I don't know anything. I wasn't necessarily expecting you to ask me this, so I might wanna find out more. And just the impact you have, talk about being. High energy, low maintenance, the impact you have upon senior people when your first answer is like, Yes, if this is a priority for you and you need this done, I wanna figure out how to do this.
Can we meet tomorrow so we can start to map this through? And that's when you can figure out how to, yes. And also say like, I've got this really busy week coming up next week, so can we start the week after? Whatever. But when you lead with, yes, you'll be amazed by what the reaction is. And you still have the right, even though you've said yes, to figure out all your concerns and think through all the stuff, right?
[00:06:37] Jane Curran: Like, well, I'm doing this. Who's gonna pick that up? Don't worry about it. Just say yes. Get in the room where the decision's gonna be made. And to your point, I'm always hunting around asking my manager what is bothering them? What do they need help with?
Early in my career, if I could get what I needed done on my agenda quick, I always be like, do you need help with anything? How can I help you? That's when things came. But yeah, and then you start this kind of like back and forth that they know you're always open, you're always like, I am ambitious. I do wanna do more.
And I'm more likely to say, yes. How can I help than, you know, I'm not the person for you. So yeah, it's just, I don't know. It works. It just, I'm, I try to coach my team to be that like open and vulnerable and like, let things come your way. And it's just, it's a good way to get work done.
[00:07:26] Dave Travers: It is, it creates incredible reciprocity with senior people where they feel like, oh wow.
Jane, Dave, whomever is this person who, when I need something, they're there for me. So now that Jane needs a letter of recommendation or a reference for this internal promotion or whatever it is, like, of course, I'm gonna do it. Okay, so now, but let's talk about leadership specifically because that is so different.
You talked about some of the frameworks that you use, but it is such a different thing to drive teams to perform than it is to be a top performer yourself. What were the challenges in the gratifying parts, and also the parts that were difficult as you got into that? Like, what was the transition like when all of a sudden, now instead of being the one who just gets the job done? Now you're the one who [00:08:15] has to help this team get the job done. How did that work?
[00:08:17] Jane Curran: The need to be a coach, and at JLL, we are all player coaches really. Are you just sitting on top of a team? You have a skill that you're also leveraging. I think you know the instant reaction of like, let me come in and fix it.
I can do it faster. And then being like, no, it's more about we all are moving together as one, and you have to coach and upskill and quickly figure out who's good at what. So that like, not everyone's gonna be good at everything, but I know they're good at this. And just knowing your team and knowing, okay, if I need to get this done, they're gonna pick that up.
And I guess I just know how to like put teams together, connect the dots quickly. Who's good at what, how much work can we intake, and then get it into the right bucket so that nobody's feeling overwhelmed? But then I do think the biggest thing in leadership is you have to say no a lot. Learning how to say no, you're saying no a lot more than you're saying Yes, you become very unpopular at times, but that's your job, right?
Sometimes I equate being a good parent to being a good leader, 'cause I'm like, that's my job at home too, at times, is to tell everybody, no, and here's why. So I just think that constant coaching and teaching and upskilling, and then if people need to fail on some things, it's okay. Let that be a lesson, let that be a learning experience.
And maybe, you know, we didn't deliver to the client as we needed to, but we picked up, we learned, and we moved on. So I just think as a leader, you have to, it's not all roses, it's not all perfect, but how do you keep everybody moving in the right direction to meet the client's needs to move at pace, but knowing that like there's gonna be some stumbles, but don't overreact.
Make it a safe space. And that's how I've learned when I've had the best managers, they've let me fail, but they didn't make it like the end of the story. They're just like, okay, figure it out. Don't do that again, and we'll move on.
[00:10:02] Dave Travers: I love that. So I think this failing thing is very difficult because a lot of people are uncomfortable with the notion that failing is part of the process, and it never gets easier, but it is.
Problem is failing, isn't succeeding. The alternative is being stuck and doing nothing. And so if you rid yourself of the delusion that success comes by avoiding failure, but rather failure comes as the predicate to success, and you have to walk through that difficult moment, and as a leader, that's one thing to embrace that as an individual, it's another thing to coax leaders.
As a leader, coaxing your team into realizing it's a safe thing to do. To say, Hey, I thought I could take on all five of these wrecks at the same time. This is a disaster, or whatever the case may be, and saying, thank you so much for coming forward to me and letting me know that. How do you get your team to embrace that in creating that safe space, as you put it?
[00:11:06] Jane Curran: I think the other thing is just reminding everyone, everything's fixable. Nothing that we're doing, we can't undo or fix, or change. So I really try to get people to like. Live on the edge. Live on like be curious, try something new, a new product, a new process, a new whatever. And if it breaks, it breaks, we'll fix it.
But don't stop trying out new things or doing something different or taking a manager down a new path, 'cause you're like, I really think this could be a new avenue for us to be successful for this job type. And if it bombs, okay, mine tried it, move on. But I think just as everything's fixable, don't ever get caught in like a panic that we can't undo something.
Could it be painful? Could it have been less painful? Sure, sure. But I don't care. Let's work it out.
[00:11:55] Dave Travers: When everything's fixable, then it's okay to bring the things that need to be fixed out into the light. Like the temptation to sweep it under the rug. If it's fixable, why not? You know, say, Hey, everybody, like we have this thing I broke, like how do we fix it now?
And it reduces the temptation to have those things get hidden away, which is always the first step. Okay. So one of the things in terms of fixing things today, one of the things that enables us to fix things is technology. And so you're at this company that is embracing technology at JLL.
So many of us are faced constantly every day with saying, should I keep doing this the way it's been done? Should I improve it with some better human process, or should I apply technology? And totally rework how that process is going. How are you guys approaching that? You have a huge, massive global team.
You know, well over a hundred thousand people, I think all over the place. You know how in, in your leadership role, how do you even philosophically approach in this world where we're being bombarded with the potential for AI and other technology solutions? How do you even approach, where do I start? Which things do I choose to use technology for?
[00:13:01] Jane Curran: I think I've gotten a lot smarter in the last, probably three to five years in this space because at first, when I like maybe was early on in leadership roles, you know, you have all these vendors coming at you so often in recruitment, and if you start to listen to all of 'em. It can get pretty dangerous.
So I think I've become a better buyer of technology, and then also reflecting, well, can we build this? Do we need to buy? And then more recently, as some of our vendors have become more relevant. Well, do I need all these point solutions, or can I stick with an enterprise that can do more? So I think it's just taking your time to listen and understand, but also I wanna be the driver of change.
I don't wanna ever have somebody come in and tell me like, you have to disrupt your whole function 'cause it's too big and it isn't innovative. I'm like, no, we're gonna disrupt, and we're gonna be innovative. Because that's where I wanna be in the room where it happens. So, like we do have a centralized AI team.
I do know who they are. We do talk on a regular basis. I have an amazing tech partner, and I would say together with her, we're charting the future and deciding, uh. Who to partner with to build, buy, or borrow. What are we gonna do with our tech stack? So I just feel really lucky to be at an organization that it's a people business, right?
We provide commercial real estate to owners and occupiers through technology, but also through people. So it's just constantly learning. Like I'm listening to podcasts like yours, listening to other podcasts, and reading. I have my own network. When you're kind of like, Hmm, is this real or not real? Sometimes ,if you listen to too many pitches, vendor pitches, you can get lost in like, we need this, and we need this.
And then all of a sudden, you reflect bac,k and you're like, that's not even a thing yet. You know that's, they're not selling you something that's even been proven. So I just think I've gotten a lot smarter and then realized how important it is if it is something that has legs and we should invest in writing a really strong business case, being very commercial.
No one's just going to give me investment dollars. Be like, oh, that sounds interesting. Sure. How much do you need to do that? No. I mean, I'm proving myself every day, every hour, what have you delivered? How have you delivered? How did that investment pan out? And then through goodbyes and bad buys along the last couple of years, if it didn't work well, then I switch, and I reinvest what I did.
Write a business case for a new business case for something that is more contemporary, more relevant what we need.
[00:15:18] Dave Travers: Okay, so one of the things you've touched on a couple of different times is connections and the value both internally and externally of connections. And in that, talking about technology, being able to call upon people in similar roles who have other interesting perspectives that other companies who've been in similar situations rather than saying.
I, Jane, or I Dave, have to listen to 10 pitches from different technology companies. Why don't I call somebody who's been through those 10 pitches and implemented one of them to see? Now let me start the whole process by calling a few of those people to understand if you're just starting as a leader, you're moving from individual contributor, now you're starting to lead for the first time, and you're involved in this process, what technology should we bring on next?
How do you start the process of building your own technology advisory board where you can bounce ideas off of, like I don't have that group of people today. I'm a brand new leader. How do I go get that group where I can do that?
[00:16:17] Jane Curran: I think what's really fascinating is the recruiting community's very active.
I mean, we're recruiters for salespeople, right? We love each other and to talk about what we're doing. So my thing is just to engage. There's so many ways to either subscribe to articles in LinkedIn, subscribe to podcasts, and then it starts to build. If you live, like get involved in your local city too.
I mean, if you live in a major metro market, there's some HR. And or recruiting event happening weekly. So then it's like you just, to me, it just starts to build and build and build, but you have to actively focus on it, right? So I take time out of my day, nights, weekends, to either listen or read, or attend events that include my peers.
And then I'm always interested in companies that are even bigger than us. That'd be like, well, God, if they tackled it and they're bigger than us, then that's something I should lean into. So I'm always probably now. As I've refined it, looking for people that have a similar tech stack that I do that are at the size and the scale that I am, because then it's the most relevant time investment for me.
But I'm also giving back because there are people to your point that are starting out that are like, how did you even figure this out? So I will. I mean, I'll take any people that are interested in learning or hearing more. I'm happy to share how I did it, or try these connections, or these are the best podcasts, or these articles are the best ones that I read.
So I'm always sharing and giving back, but it's conscious. It is a, it is something that I dedicated myself to, 'cause you know, another thing for me is lead, follow, or stay behind. Like I never wanna be in the, I got passed over, so I'm staying relevant in this space is critical to the success of my career. So I do spend time building that network.
[00:18:02] Dave Travers: I love that. And I think just to your point, like if you don't know where to begin, just begin. Like it doesn't have to be perfect. You don't have to go to the right first event, but find an event in your town and go to it and start talking to people, and you'll just get better at it by doing it.
But you do have to dedicate the time. I love that. And it will pay off, but it will be an unexpected time interval, and in ways you don't anticipate, and how it pays off.
[00:18:26] Jane Curran: And it's a really lovely community, right? You can share talent stories, tech advice.
[00:18:31] Dave Travers: This is a group of people that have self-selected 'cause they like helping people.
This is a great group of people to hang out with. Absolutely. Yeah. I love that. Okay, so another thing that I love, in addition to talking about connections that you talked about, was building business cases. And this is not something that necessarily as a recruiter who's great at filling the next role and understanding from the hiring manager what exactly we need.
That isn't a skill you necessarily develop on your rise through the ranks, and then all of a sudden you're in a senior position, and you are the one advocating, we need to hire more people here, we need more technology here, and we're gonna drive a good business outcome. It's not just because I think it's a good idea, it's because the numbers add up or whatever.
If you haven't done that process and for the first time, you're advocating for some investment, how do you build a business case?
[00:19:19] Jane Curran: I think you first have to fall in love with the problem, so not the problem that I wanna solve, but the business. Like, usually they're connected, but how can I get the leaders who have the money to invest interested in my idea?
How is it gonna solve their recruiting challenge? So I think first of all, it's like get out of you being a recruiter and be like, oh, this will be so much better if I had this tool or this product. It'd be like, well, no, how's it gonna help them fill faster? A plethora of I things for them. But I think first it's identifying with the business, how's this gonna change their bottom line, their speed, their quality, and then doing the math.
And usually you have to have many components to say why this investment will then pay off different deliverables. So I think I've gotten them involved early too, and then see if it is a technical product, like showcase other companies, showcase demos, get them involved in the design, like get all of those things moving so that you're not like blindsiding them with like, Hey, can I have X amount of dollars to go invest?
They'll be like to do what? So fall in love with the problem, identify the solution, and get the math right. To me, it's like working with tech, working with finance, working with recruiting, lots of data. It's not impossible. You really have to understand that in order for you to get an investment and the recruiters come to me and be like, we should have this.
And it's like, well, just because you think we should have it does not mean the business is gonna be like, yeah, go for it. And I had to learn that the hard way. I'm like, how can they not? Why can't we hire more people? Why can't we? And it's like first and foremost, I'm like, let's look at better process and better tech than the solution always being, oh my God, we're strapped.
We need more people. So I think that's also a good thing, and part of your business case is like, Hey, I can work with the team size I have, we have an awesome team, but this could help us in peak times, or this could help us just move us into the future, be future-ready. Yeah. So those are some things that's just you have to appeal to the business and don't come like a week before the budget's due, like build your story.
It could take you six months to get your story right. The investment was made, and the budget signed off. Yes. So I've just been patient, learned the hard way. Failed and been like, okay, I would do that differently, and I would give myself some more time. And it isn't always a yes, and sometimes it's a no. And then I'm like, okay, I gotta sharpen this storyline and eventually get a yes.
[00:21:43] Dave Travers: I think there's so many different parts of that that are so right, but all of them stem from where you started, I think, which is fall in love with the problem. So, for instance, being patient, as you said at the end, and getting some nos along the way. If you're in love with the problem and you're continuing to figure out what would be a better and better solution, and how am I more and more confident this solution is right?
Then all those bumps in the road are just part of the learning process as opposed to the failure that is the end of the story. So I love that when you are coming at it, and by the way, other people who can help you out, because doing the math and getting the math right isn't your thing or whatever it is.
When you're in love with the problem, it's way more fun to help you as the finance guy or the tech guy or whatever, the lawyer who's helping you with it, because this person's obsessed with this problem and making recruiters more productive or decreasing time to hire, whatever the problem you're trying to solve is.
So I think that is so wise. Okay, we always end these episodes with a rapid-fire round or the lightning round. So here's what the construct or the scenario is, I'm the CEO of the company of JLL. I'd bump into you in the elevator. We have 30 seconds or 60 seconds on the ride up at headquarters. And I say, Hey Jane, you're the, you're one of our talent leaders.
You've run recruiting and talent operations and all those things. I've been thinking like people are at the center of what we do. How should we be measuring the effectiveness of our talent team and our talent acquisition efforts over the coming year?
[00:23:13] Jane Curran: And I would say. Mr. and Mrs. CEO, a lot of our hiring managers only hire one person once a year. You know, we're where we're swimming in this process all the time. I really wanna deliver a solution to them where they can get the answers they need the first time with the right answer, and they can go on their way back to serving our clients, and that this recruiting process isn't cumbersome for them.
So I really wanna figure out a way to have a digital-led process, at least at the beginning, where they can get pretty far and deep into this process, and then the human will come in to help move the recruitment process along. But I think we just wanna make it when a manager has to come and recruit, that they get excited about it, cause they're like, that was so easy. I knew where to go, how to go. I got pretty far on my own. And then that recruiter came in and just really helped me guide and design an offer. And close the deal. So that's what I'm looking for is a more digitally led experience that managers can't wait to do.
[00:24:12] Dave Travers: Again, I love how you started that because as you think about being an executive or a hiring manager, hearing the talent team talk that way, it is so intuitive.
You give yourself so much credibility when you start from the premise that. My clients internally, my hiring managers, whoever they may be, aren't necessarily thinking about their day as I wish I could finish up my day job. So I get back to recruiting. Usually, it's the opposite. Usually, they wanna get done with recruiting so they can have their people and get back to their day job.
And so when you frame the problem like that to an executive already, they're like, okay, this person understands who their customer is internally, and now we can, I can learn something about how they view that problem. I love that. Okay. One more lightning round. And we, same scenario, Madame, CEO comes into the in the elevator and says, Hey Jane, you're a talent expert on our team.
I spend tons of time interviewing people for internal stuff to be board members to, you know, get all sorts of different scenarios where I'm assessing people, informal and informal interviews make me a better interviewer. What's your one best piece of advice to make me a better interviewer?
[00:25:20] Jane Curran: I would understand our leadership behaviors inside and out. Frame your questions around those leadership behaviors, and if you're doing a panel of interviews, try to do them tightly, meaning like if possible, try to do them on the same day back to back, and make sure you ask the same questions of those candidates. There are many, many assessment tools out there, but I think the best assessment tool is to repeat questions to the candidates to make sure that you can kind of understand who nailed it, like who answered that question the best, 'cause you need something comparable throughout.
So I just think like really get in tune with what are the leadership behaviors are that your organization drives and delivers, and make sure that you have really closely scripted questions that can assess that. And then make sure you ask some of each candidate.
[00:26:04] Dave Travers: So Smart Jane Curran, it is so clear why you're a Talent All-Star. Thanks so much for taking the time of this today.
[00:26:10] Jane Curran: Thanks, Dave.
[00:26:15] Dave Travers: That's Jane Curran, Global Head of HR Operations at Jones Lang LaSalle. We'll include her LinkedIn profile in the show notes. And just a reminder, you can also watch full video episodes on the official ZipRecruiter YouTube channel. If you have feedback for us or ideas for future guests, email us at talentallstars@ziprecruiter.com.
I'm Dave Travers. Thanks for listening to Talent All Stars, and we'll see you right back here next week.