Hiring thousands of employees for a new casino resort launch is a high-stakes race against time. You are operating in an unfamiliar city without established market dominance, all while under the constant scrutiny of industry regulators.
Jenn Reagan has done it multiple times. As VP of Talent Learning and Development at Bally's Corporation, she's figured out how to walk into a brand new community, earn their trust, and build a workforce from scratch without blowing the whole thing up in the process.
Her secret? Rigid flexibility. Know exactly what you're doing and expect none of it to go your way.
You'll also hear:
Connect with Jenn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifer-reagan-7b910241
Learn more about Bally's: www.ballys.com
Connect with us:
💻 All Episodes: TalentAllStars.com
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/ziprecruiter/
💼 Dave’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davetravers/
📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ziprecruiter
🎵TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ziprecruiter
Enjoyed this episode? We’d be grateful for a rating or review on your favorite podcast app.
[00:00:00] Jenn Reagan: The most important thing to remember is rigid flexibility, and there's gotta be a ton of planning involved, right? You've gotta have your checklists, you've gotta have your task masters, you've gotta manage the project, you've gotta do all of that stuff, right? But then you've also gotta be prepared for absolutely nothing to go as planned.
[00:00:19] Dave Travers: So what does it really take for your business to attract world-class talent today? I'm Dave Travers, President of ZipRecruiter, and on Talent All-Stars, we shine a light on the people and the day-to-day processes behind recruitment and retention at some of the world's most influential businesses.
Today's talent all-star is Jenn Reagan, the VP of Talent, Learning, and Development at Bally's Corporation, one of the country's leading casino and resort operators. Every time Bally's stands up a new resort, Jen's responsible for hiring thousands of team members across different geographies in a highly regulated industry.
It's a huge challenge that requires, in her words, rigid flexibility, knowing when to copy and paste and when to adapt. The type of balancing act she first learned managing restaurants before pivoting into a career in HR. So let's bring her in. Jen Reagan, welcome to Talent All-Stars.
[00:01:09] Jenn Reagan: Hey, thanks for having me.
[00:01:10] Dave Travers: So excited to have you. I wanna go back to before you were a big, powerful executive, and before you were hiring thousands of people and all that stuff. Earlier in your career, when you started being in this world of hiring and talent acquisition and HR and people and all the things you do now, when was the moment you realized, "Hey, this might be a thing for me," like, "I can really see myself doing this for a long time"? What was that moment for you?
[00:01:38] Jenn Reagan: You know, it's so hard to narrow it down to any one particular moment. Um, and the one moment that comes to mind is kind of when I was back in my restaurant days, and I was working in a restaurant, and I was looking around, and I was kinda thinking like, "Hey, you know, I feel like we could maybe do this better here," or, "I don't think I got enough training in this.
I feel like we should give people better training in that." You know, I just started having these kinds of thoughts like, "I wonder if there's any kind of job where you could, like, have this kind of idea and, like," I don't know, "do something with it," right? And, um, so from there, I just started, like, talking to people in the restaurant, asking questions of the general manager, and he was like, "Hey, you gotta talk to this lady in HR."
And the sort of career started maybe, like, spitballing from, or rolling from there, I suppose. But I don't know if that's the moment where I thought, like, you know, "This is what I wanna do," or, "This is gonna be my career," because there've just been so many moments over the last couple of decades that have shaped, like, who I am and what I do and what I love about it.
So I would say maybe there was, like, a spark in that earlier time where I realized, like, you could maybe have ideas and, you know, talk to the right people and start, you know, making things different, or making change. But then, you know, as you grow and evolve as a person, as a human, and you start having all of these different experiences in your life, you know, at the same time, HR was also sort of growing and evolving as a function as I'm growing as a human.
And then I get to be part of this company here that I've been with for, like, 12 years now, and that's also growing and evolving. So it's this, like, for me, it was this incredible, like, weaving together of all of these different, like, I'll, I'll use the buzzword, journeys, right, that were happening at the same time.
And I gotta tell you, I just feel like, extraordinarily blessed that all of it was happening simultaneously and that I was able to cobble together a career where I can sit in front of you now and be like, "Yeah, this is where I belong," for sure.
[00:03:30] Dave Travers: Amazing. I think we all dream and want so much to be in that career where it feels so instinctive, natural, and confident to say, "This is where I belong."
But, and what's interesting about, as you started telling about the early part of your journey, it wasn't just thinking about HR, and people, and talent, and things like that, but you were already in a guest-facing role. You were in the restaurant business. So something about that, you know, now being at Bally's, obviously, something about that came into view early on, too. Tell me about, you know, being in that sort of an environment where guest experience is so critical.
[00:04:09] Jenn Reagan: You know, I love knowing that people are well taken care of, and I think that's my favorite thing about hospitality and hospitality people in general. There's just sort of this innate desire to create these amazing experiences because I think that it's so beautiful, right?
To be in front of a person and know that you sort of hold the fate of their moment or their experiences, like, in your hands. You know, like you are in front of this person. They decided to come to your restaurant. They just happened to sit at your table, you know, as an example, and now it's up to you. The rest of it is up to you.
Like, it's almost like their fate is in your hands, and you can either decide that you're going to make the most of it, or you're just gonna go through the motions. But ultimately, you know, you want them to come back, you want them to talk about the experience that they had with you. So you just kind of do your best to make sure that they feel like this is somewhere that they made a good decision to come and be with you in this moment, you know?
[00:05:03] Dave Travers: Yes. I think there's something when you are in it with a team to create a great guest experience and create hospitality live, there's this incredible esprit de corps and clarity of purpose that, you know, you don't have to sit around and look at the data and say, you know, "Do I think a red doorknob would be better than a green doorknob?"
It's like the customer's right there, and we're all here committed to creating a great guest experience. There's something magical about that feeling.
[00:05:28] Jenn Reagan: That's what I love about being around hospitality people and being, like, on the floor in operations and hospitality because you don't even need to say anything, right?
Like, everybody's just got this innate ability to, like, look around and know what comes next. You make eye contact with somebody, and you know what needs to happen next. It's just, like, something ... I don't know if it's born into people who come into hospitality or if, you know, you come in an entry-level job, and hospitality sort of creates this within you, and then you just take it and run with it.
But it's truly exceptional, and hospitality people are my absolute favorite people.
[00:06:01] Dave Travers: Okay. So eventually, all that intermingling of people and hospitality came together to all of a sudden, you're starting to take on leadership roles and eventually, obviously, at Bally's. What was it that made you think, you know, just being in it and being guest-facing isn't just the thing?
I wanna be a leader of people who are creating these experiences and an architect of a system.
[00:06:25] Jenn Reagan: Again, I think it just came together after, like, a series of great moments, right? Like, being in human resources, you get to be a part of people's lives in a way that you couldn't have thought that you would be, right?
Because sometimes, you know, there are people out there from all walks of life, and they don't always have people to talk to, and HR tends to be, like, the place you go to talk to people if you need something. And I have been part of so many different moments in so many different people's lives that I, every time you just think like, "Wow, this is really special to be here right now," and I wanna be part of more of these moments.
So let me see what's next. Let me, at least, you know, what's the next big idea that takes you to the next level? And then you get to be part of even more of these incredible moments. You know, it's like you're sort of building these stepping stones to what you're ultimately gonna be, and who knows what that'll ultimately be for me, even.
You know, right now I'm sitting where I am, and it's amazing, and I love what I'm doing, and if my boss hears this, that's, you know, don't take it the wrong way. I'm not looking for more right now. But, you know, who knows what the next great moment, you know, interaction with the next great human is gonna, is gonna bring you to.
[00:07:34] Dave Travers: Okay, so now let's talk about Bally's. Like, you are, are helping an organization find the right people and develop the right people across many locations, thousands of guests every day, tens of thousands. And when you're operating at that scale, what is that like for someone who may even have experience in HR or experience in talent acquisition or developing a team when all of a sudden you're standing up a new resort, and you have to hire thousands of people very quickly?
Like, if I've never faced, even if I know a little bit about recruiting or a little bit about leading people, if I've never faced a challenge at that scale before, like, walk me through the basics. What's that like?
[00:08:15] Jenn Reagan: I would say, uh, the most important thing to remember is rigid flexibility, right? Like, it's a monumental task, and you must be prepared, and there's gotta be a ton of planning involved, right?
And you've gotta have your checklists, you've gotta have your task masters, you've gotta manage the project, you've gotta do all of that stuff, right? But then you've also gotta pre- be prepared for absolutely nothing to go as planned Right? So it's that whole pivot thing, right? You've gotta be... You've gotta have everything planned and know exactly what you're doing, have everything ready, and then be ready for none of it to go the way you expected, and turn and do something else, like, just kinda in the moment.
[00:08:55] Dave Travers: And when that first, that first moment of forced flexibility occurs, how do you even know, how do you have the confidence that, okay, now I have done all the preparation, I have all the systems in place, I have the freedom, and I know I'm confident in making a decision to make a quick pivot based on changing circumstances? How do you build that?
[00:09:14] Jenn Reagan: I honestly believe that this is built of coming up through years and years in the hospitality business of you're dealing with people, either employees or guests, and you can try as hard as you want to predict the next move, but you really almost always end up with door number three, right?
So it's a lifetime of having to decide in the moment what to do next and not having the opportunity to ask somebody else about it or, you know, take too much time to figure it out. You just must go, and I mean, that's one of the brilliant things about hospitality and hospitality people.
[00:09:43] Dave Travers: Yes. Uh, I love that. There's something about being in a moment where there's no choice but to go. Like, there's no time to consider should I go or not. It's just, you know, it's go time, so we have to do that. It's, it's freeing in a certain way, even though there's... It seems like a high-wire act to observe it, but it, when you're in the thick of it, it's actually a feeling of freedom to be able to, uh, show that rigid flexibility, as you put it.
[00:10:06] Jenn Reagan: Getting back to the opening of, like, a, you know, a ginormous facility, hiring thousands of people, and having to be rigid, operating in regulatory environments, right? Which, um, you know, Bally's really leans into. Some operators might shy away from environments that are highly, highly, highly regulated, but Bally's is sort of like, "Hey, you know, here we are.
This is what we do," right? The more regulation, the better. We can thrive in an environment like that. It creates rigor to be in a highly regulated environment, but the flexibility that comes along with that and having to pivot in the moment is crucial. But at the same time, you wanna make sure that this is about community immersion. Whenever you're going in and, you know, opening a facility and hiring thousands of people, you gotta stay away from the whole copy and paste, even though that's part of the rigidity of it, is you have to be able to copy and paste the things that are required.
But you need to be immersed in the community first, understand who they are, what they want, what's the economic background like, what's the history like, you know, what's the job environment like. Because it would be a little bit, I would say, arrogant maybe, to go in somewhere as just, you know, some, some corporate team that can just come in and stand up a property and hire thousands of people, because you don't have any brand equity in a place like that.
You know, you gotta go in first and get to know people, build a lot of trust. Focus heavily on community engagement, and that's something that Bally's, I think, does really well and makes me really proud to work for a company like Bally's that is not just about going in and building something the way Bally's believes it needs to be built, but, like, honoring the community.
[00:11:41] Dave Travers: I think that sounds great, z- like, to so many people. But how do you get that started? I can see when the flywheel's going, when the trust is built, when the community feels heard and understood, that, like, continuing to hear and understand or continuing to have people feel comfortable that they're understood, that sounds doable to me.
But when you're just starting, you're moving into it, we're gonna stand up a new resort, we're in the middle of construction, or we're about to start construction or whatever phase it is, how do you start that process to make people,’cause, you know, you're coming in, as you said, as Bally's, as this big company.
We know how to do this. We have systems. We have processes. We have compliance. How do you get people feeling like you're really getting a sense of the community and listening?
[00:12:25] Jenn Reagan: Yeah. Well, I mean, it's just about showing up. It's about showing up, about being there, about being honest, about following through, you know, with what you say you're gonna do.
I'm sure there are a lot of places that could go in and say a whole bunch of stuff, right? But then it's about actually honoring the commitments that you've made, and I'm really proud to work for a company that does that. You know, I think about Chicago, where we're, you know, standing up a huge facility at River West right now, and the local team there is just ingrained in the community.
That kind of trust isn't just built overnight. You don't just show up at one or two events, right? The team there is truly ingrained and has been for years now. So they've been able to build that sort of trust. That doesn't come easy. That comes in moments and time and events, and just really, really honoring the commitment.
[00:13:13] Dave Travers: I think that is smart, not just from a talent strategy, but it's smart from a guest strategy, too, because I remember my early in my career, I worked at Disney, and it was interesting talking and surveying consumers. If you're from Kansas City, your experience of Disney is the movies and the IP and things like that.
But if you're a local in Orlando, you know, your experience is you know lots of people who've worked at Disney, who've told you what the company's really like. And so there's a real investment in treating people right isn't just a good people strategy, it's a good customer strategy, too.
[00:13:50] Jenn Reagan: For sure. For sure.
[00:13:52] Dave Travers: Okay. So now we're in this hospitality, people-driven, you're in the heart of the people operations of a people-driven business, and yet we're in this changing world where technology is affecting everything. Systems are constantly being questioned about how do we get it smarter, more efficient, deliver something better.
In a world of AI transformation and other technology buzzwords being used all the time, how do you decide, like, what should we do next? What is a core process that we don't wanna change because this is working for us? And what is a, like, what's the next mountain I wanna climb to use technology to create an even better guest experience or an even better employee experience?
[00:14:37] Jenn Reagan: It's tough, right? Because this area is moving so fast, and you want to be at the forefront of it. You wanna be, you know, using technology efficiently to help your business move and grow faster. But you also have to be very careful because what was doing that yesterday might not be doing that tomorrow. We are trying to just be very, very thoughtful about how we're doing this, but our company is very invested in AI and finding ways to use it to make the business better and more efficient.
Um, we, you know, we have a whole team of people whose job is to do this, and they are, you know, coming up with new and fabulous, uh, ways for us to utilize this technology all the time. In the talent world, you know, we're mostly utilizing generative AI at this time, you know, things to take the administrative burden off so that we can focus more on the people things, you know, drafting and optimizing job postings and ads, personalizing outreach messages at scale, maybe generating interview questions that are, like, really tailored to a specific role, creating summaries, that kind of stuff.
Because the rest of it, you gotta be careful about overusing technology because we are a people business, right? So we've gotta make sure that we're honoring the people, the human connection there, but using the technology to help us be more present as humans, right, with the talent communities and whatnot.
So we're looking at things like, that make the candidate experience better or easier, you know, like chatbots on the global careers page, just to help answer FAQs about roles and companies, just to kind of keep information at the fingertips, you know, of the candidate, so they don't have to do too much digging around.
But it's really about balancing all of that with the human touch because, especially in the hospitality business, like, we can't lose that.
[00:16:25] Dave Travers: And so to that human touch part of the equation, learning and development is also part of your, uh, job and what you lead. So how do you bring your own people along to grow and embrace this journey where things are gonna be changing 'cause you're adding new capabilities that are technology, and you want them to understand your vision of keeping the human touch as part of that? How do you do that?
[00:16:49] Jenn Reagan: Well, AI in learning and development is pretty interesting, right? And I'm actually, I actually, lately I've been thinking that L&D and learning and development, like, that, the way of, that we talk about that in casinos and resorts and hospitality is almost like a little bit of a four-letter word because it can seem so academic and overwhelming, right?
So really, I try to think of it more as, like, operational training, right? And from a learning standpoint, you know, we wanna use our learning management systems. We wanna leverage AI there so that people are taking training that's, like, that's tailored to them in a specific role. We have, you know, platforms for people who are part of succession planning that, you know, you can go in, and you can fine-tune and customize the kind of development that you're looking for, right?
But in our world, there are so many things that you're never gonna replace with AI. Right? We're not gonna replace mentorship, coaching, manager moments with employees with- that just, like, kind of crop up in the hallway and whatnot, right? So we're using, you know, AI responsibly in our learning systems and to fine-tune maybe results, but then the time that we're saving, we're using to make sure that we're enhancing those people and manager skills that are so important and never gonna be replaced by technology.
[00:18:04] Dave Travers: How do you sell the people who are a little concerned about that? You know, like, that never replace, be replaced by technology part. Do you find that overcoming people's fears is a critical part of that journey of operational training, or are people past that now? Are they used to change happening fast enough?
Do they have the confidence that you're in a people-driven business, and there's always gonna be a need for me?
[00:18:28] Jenn Reagan: I don't know. I don't think that you're ever gonna eradicate people's fears about this, because there's just so much un- unknown about what's possible with this type of technology. So I'm sure that people have visions of casinos where maybe the only people in there are guests, and there are little robots that are coming around and serving your cocktails and, you know, the machines talk to you more and all of that.
And maybe that is somewhere in the future. I don't know. But, but what I do know right now is that the human element is not going anywhere anytime soon. It's going to evolve, and our people are going to need to know how to utilize technology to enhance their jobs. And certainly, it's always sad when, you know, people's jobs are replaced by technology, but the important thing is that people are willing to embrace it and just kind of build their own skill set so that they can continue to be in those people-focused roles while utilizing the technology to help enhance the guest experience.
[00:19:24] Dave Travers: I think that both acknowledge the reality of that, that things are changing, and also says clearly, like, in a people-driven business, the people aren't going away anytime soon. So I think that's great. Okay. We always end these episodes with a lightning round. So the scenario I want you to think about is the CEO of Bally's is wandering down the hallway, or you get in the elevator at headquarters, and there it's just the two of you for 60 seconds in your elevator ride.
And the CEO turns to you and says, "Hey, Jen, you're the talent person here, the people person here at the company and thinking about learning and development. What's the skill we need more of over the next couple years that we don't have enough at the company? Like, what should we be looking for more of as our business evolves and as the world changes? What do we need more of?
[00:20:12] Jenn Reagan: I would say we need to interview better for things like empathy and resilience.
[00:20:19] Dave Travers: How do you do that? Like, what's a good interviewing technique to create empathy and to search for empathy and resilience?
[00:20:26] Jenn Reagan: You gotta be really curious in your interview process and try... You, you get, you have to prepare certainly for interviews, right?
So you've gotta have a little bit of structure to it. You can't come in and feel like there was no preparation, and there's no structure. But I think our interviews have to be more conversational and less rigid, maybe. Don't be afraid of silence. Don't be afraid to let things marinate during an interview.
Don't be afraid to take the conversation in a place where you didn't, you know, think it was originally gonna go. My favorite interviews are the ones when all of a sudden you get, like, the little pop-up on your screen that you only have five minutes left, and you don't even know, like, where the time went.
And these interviews are more about real conversations, about real stories, and they're gritty, and you know, it's not that sort of high-level fluff, you know, these are my weaknesses, and these are my areas for opportunity, and one of my weaknesses is I'm just too punctual, and you know, that, that kind of stuff, right?
When you can get into real stories and feel like there's been like a, a kind of like a random camaraderie almost built during the course of the interview process, those are the best interviews where you learn the most about people.
[00:21:28] Dave Travers: I think that follows your rigid flexibility framework you brought up earlier, is that if you, if you go into an interview knowing what the job is, having thought about the candidate, what you're really looking for, but with all that preparation, you have the flexibility to just take a direction and get to the types of conversations that the candidate isn't fully, like, pre-coached, pre-scripted on, the time both flies by for you, and you get to the real real, uh, much more effectively.
I love that. I love that. Okay, one more li- same scenario lightning round question. CEO gets in the elevator and says, "Hey, Jen, you know, I've been thinking about the talent and learning and development teams. Like, so much is changing, so much is central of our strategy to getting better talent and doing better learning and development.
How should we measure the effectiveness of your team over the coming year or two? How should I even think about that as a CEO?”
[00:22:20] Jenn Reagan: Right. If I've got 30 to 60 seconds to talk about this in an elevator, I think I would probably say, let's look at two things first. Let's start by looking at our internal mobility ratings, okay?
Because, you know, how are we looking at our people inside? How are we developing our people inside before we even have to go looking outside? Because that means that we are building capability and not just, like, filling roles, right? So let's look at internal mobility rating. I would also say as part of internal mobility rating, there's gotta be a follow-up there to understand how successful people are in the role once we've promoted them, because you can get into this, like, sticky situation where you're promoting people, and then not maybe standing them up properly for the new role that they're in.
So we've got to have also some kind of measure on the pulse of that. But then secondly, I think we need to look at manager or, and or leadership effectiveness, not just necessarily like engagement scores broadly, but specifically people's ratings on their relationships with their managers and their leaders.
Because, as cliche as it might be, people really, honestly do leave managers and not companies. And this is kind of where it comes into play, what I was talking about earlier in the other question about empathy and resilience, is that if we can get those relationships right at scale, the manager-direct report relationship, everything else falls into place, retention, growth, productivity, all of that stuff. So those are the two KPIs that I would go for.
[00:23:42] Dave Travers: I love that. I love the employees leave managers, not companies. I think that's a really valuable lens to think about and, uh, and as an operator of a business, an important framework. Jen Reagan, so clear why you're a talent all-star. Thank you so much for taking the time with us today.
[00:23:59] Jenn Reagan: Thank you so much. It was a pleasure.
[00:24:04] Dave Travers: That's Jenn Reagan. She's the VP of Talent, Learning, and Development at Bally's Corporation. We'll put her LinkedIn profile in the episode description. And just a reminder, we put the video versions of these conversations on YouTube, also on the official ZipRecruiter channel. If you have feedback for us or ideas for future episodes, send us an email at talentallstars@ziprecruiter.com.
I'm Dave Travers. Thanks for listening to Talent All-Stars. See you right back here next time.